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Fair solution for Siege farmers

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  • skjmjnj
    started a topic Fair solution for Siege farmers

    Fair solution for Siege farmers

    Firstly, it would be good to mention that I am playing this game for more than 1600 days and I am experienced enough in the game content. I am also following this forum for 3 years just to read opinions. I am in a G1 guild myself and I am stable C2 rank in arena. The half of the guild is C1 and some of us are C2 the rest F1-F3. From 28 players only one is inactive for more than a month. I was also in a G2 guild before for a month "to test the waters" and saw that I am not ready yet for this level. All the given statistics information are based on my experience in this game as a guild vice master in different rank guilds and you are not supposed to accept them, even though I think they are same for most of the guild ranks.

    Check here the suggestion of *Chow*: https://forum.com2us.com/forum/main-...-siege-farmers

    Secondly, I don't like the suggested solution of *Chow* because:
    1. Guardian players will benefit from this more than other players. Usually the contribution of players in guardian guilds is almost equal (except farming guardian guilds). Since guilds will get extra BONUS reward over the currently mentioned rewards this will increase the gap between guild ranks even more and current G1-G3 guilds will benefit more from a such change. So your solution while preventing farmers will also increase the gap between ranks. This solution is a knife with two blades and a bit selfish for guardian players, isn't it ?

    2. Why should players which don't attack at all in siege or attack sometimes should get near equal rewards to those who fully attack ? Why should they be removed from guild, because they have lives out of summoners war and don't play 24/7 as most of the guardian players ? I won't even mention that It's especially hard to recruit active C1 players for G1 guilds.

    Thirdly, I don't think that other suggestions like making inactive players not be able to fight in siege can be easily bypassed by keeping the alts accounts active every day. Also it's not a good idea to limit players entering different guilds. Everyone should be able to be in a guild with their friends. It's not a bad thing a F2-C3 guilds have a guardian player, the broken part comes when those guardian players get more than 30% of the reward. So fixing the reward amount without increasing the gap among guilds will be fair enough.

    THE PROPOSED PERCENTAGES BELOW ARE FOR BETTER UNDERSTANDING THE PROPOSAL AND THEY MAY VARY ACCORDING TO GUILD RANKS.

    Here is my suggestion using maths and statistics: If the contribution percentage of the top 3 players is more than or equal to the contribution percentage of all other players, then set a maximum contribution reward percentage. In my opinion the right percentage might be 9-10% (the exact percentage should be decided by com2us via testing results to prevent farming guilds without affecting other guilds) and everything achieved over this % should be shared among other contributers in the siege according to their contribution percentage making sure that those other contributers will also not get more than the fixed percentage amount. It sounds complex, so let me explain with an example to make it more understandable.

    Example: Let's think of a G1 guild getting 3400 crystals and assume that top 3 players' contribution is as something like as follows: 25%, 22% and 20% (or even higher which will be worse for them) and the contribution of the rest players is 33% total. Since the contribution of the top 3 players is 67% and this is more than 50% (or just other percentage decided by com2us via testing) then it's obvious that the top players are farming. In this case just limit the maximum reward percentage the players can obtain to the fixed percentage (9-10%). So as a result the top 3 players with 25%, 22% and 20% contribution will receive only 10% (340 crystals or 306 for 9%) and the rest 37% left from them will be distributed to other players according to their contribution and making sure the players receiving thet left percentage wouldn't get over 10% in total receiving.

    Conclusion: Let's be honest usually in guardian guilds where the contribution rate is near equal the top player gets on average around 10-13% contribution and the rest of the players in decreasing order get contribution which is less by 1-2% according to the previous player. Meaning the 2nd player gets around 9-12%, 3rd around 8-11% and so on. Or in some rare cases the top contributor will get 13-17% while the 2nd and 3rd will be around 10-13%. So, as you can see the top 3 players together getting equal to or more than 50% contribution is not usual and if that is happening then it's obvious they are farming. Also other parameters like median of contribution of the guild might be used for better detectecting results.
    ​​
    Median of contribution: Check the contribution percentage/points of the player in the middle. If there are 25 players in the siege battle, check how much contribution percentage/points the 13th player got. The median of contribution of farming guilds will be a lot lower than non-farming guilds. Obviously 0-25% for farming guilds And around 30-65% for non-farming guilds.

    I think this is the most effective and fair solution for everyone so far. Let me know what you do not like about this suggestion with logical reasons. Even better if you suggest solutions, if there is a way to bypass this method for unfair advantages. I will re-edit this post continuosly depending on your feedback.

    Peace!

    Update prior to @darlic23:
    "The guild I am in has only 7-8 active players doing siege. It is very easy to get 20% contribution. All it takes is winning 10 attack and a few def win. In this case it means 20,15,15,15,15 ,10,10 and suddenly you are a farming guild."

    ​​​​​​I have a solution for such cases. Another checking parameter might be the gap between players in top 10. If the gaps among top10 players are more than 3-4% this would also be a red flag. Considering so many parameters at once greatly reduces the chances of non-farming guilds to be accused with farming. Also I have mentioned the exacy parameters can be fixed with the statistics com2us has.

    Update prior to @er0L
    "You take 7 top Players and 8 filler accounts - all they do is make 10 attacks and Setting deffs from filler accounts so they don't win any deffs themselve."

    Well, in this case you are right. I should think more about this possibility and edit my post when I come with a solution for this. Usually this would not happen in the case of darlic23 where even the defences of inactive players will sometimes get defence successes. Thanks for your contribution!

    Update prior to @crionic
    "Siege is guild effort. I made discussion in my guild and we agreed to cap contribution at 10% and share rest between all other active members (for example using minimum 20 swords)."
    ​​​
    I like the idea to distribute points among the active members if they have used minimum XX swords to make thinks better for players who have tried their best, but failed. But this still not solves the farming problem. For example only farmers will attack and the reward will be still distributed only among them. I will think how might this work and re-edit my post accordingly. Thanks for your contribution!
    Last edited by skjmjnj; 02-02-2019, 05:56 AM.

  • skjmjnj
    commented on 's reply
    darlic23 you got my point very fast. Some people were not able to do it for hours, because it takes some simple mathematical calculations...

    "The solution is actually very simple. Just half the current crystal given out in chows formula. Then the total crystal given out to a G1 guild in chows suggestion is same as the total crystal currently given out to G1 guilds."

    Yes, that way it will be fair. Now just a minimum requirement of contribution is needed. For example in lab you need a total of 300 points contribution to get the final box reward. But it's hard to decide what kind of minimum requirement should be set, because setting minimum amount of contribution points is still not working for farming guilds and they will again easily bypass it.

  • *Chow*
    commented on 's reply
    darlic23 or bump up conq crystal rewards, either way works. a much simplier equation and rule that is to understand that his multiple x y z scenario for crystal rewards...

  • darlic23
    commented on 's reply
    What I believe skjmjnj is saying is that the total amount of crystal in chow’s suggestion is increased and the crystal gap between G1 guilds and say C3 guild is thus increased.

    Chow proposal is;
    total crystal earned / number of members in siege * (1 + contribution%).

    Since contribution adds up to 100%, the total crystal given out is doubled.

    The solution is actually very simple. Just half the current crystal given out in chows formula. Then the total crystal given out to a G1 guild in chows suggestion is same as the total crystal currently given out to G1 guilds.

  • skjmjnj
    commented on 's reply
    You're such an ignorant narcissist that even didn't read my post to know what rank is my guild. You are only posting here to oppose everyone with your sh*t without having any logical view. Keep spreading your sh*t I don't care for ignorants like you who doesn't have valid arguments and write coments under posts without even reading them. Ignorant narcissist! I will just block you, because you are not helping anyone here with your nonsense.

  • *Chow*
    commented on 's reply
    are you stupid? many here already claim im a "farmer" so any solution is a direct nerf in crystal gain for me.... how dumb are you that you cant connect 2 dots?

  • *Chow*
    commented on 's reply
    if your guild is c1 its obviously doesnt deserve same reward as g1... dont be stupid. thats like crying about arena legend getting more crystals than challenger 2. dont be dumb. c3/g1 is where most farmers are. and where 90% of guilds resides...

  • skjmjnj
    commented on 's reply
    Sharing your guild will show how exactly you are "nerfing" your gains. Ignorant.

  • skjmjnj
    commented on 's reply
    Are a joke dude ??? I think your eyes are off. Winning Conqueror1 (C1) gives you 7% of 20k points. I think you're the one looking foolish, because I have CLEARLY WROTE C1. I don't think to lose time with ignorants like you anymore.

  • *Chow*
    commented on 's reply
    what does me sharing my guild as anything to do with this? again for the millionth time since youre too dumb to read, my suggestion literally nerfs my crystal gains but youre so focus on projecting to me to protect your own personal crystal gains...hmmmmm

  • skjmjnj
    commented on 's reply
    I see who is the stupid one. And I see who regreds to share his guild in public. Logic is crying.

  • *Chow*
    commented on 's reply
    your math is off... winning c rank gives you 10% of 20k of points...

    if youre going to argue use correct math to avoid looking foolish.

    secondly: fine make it more simple, anyone with a def on a base automatically gets part of the pie since their def was used and they contributed. done and done. time to move on, unless of course you wanna argue how thats unfair lol

  • *Chow*
    commented on 's reply
    Boost in my total income? this litterally nerfs my crystal gains, congrats on being stupid. also if there busy with rl and dont care, im sure they asked to be bench again, failed logic, seems like YOURE worry about your income if youre so against what is a fair distribution to a team...

  • skjmjnj
    commented on 's reply
    I am saying that you use strawman strategy to make yourself seeming like you have an argument without having one. People having real live priority would not mind if they get reward or not in a mobile game. Is that enough logical for you ? I see that you want to get boost on your total income or help your not so active weak friends get more stuff than they usually should do. Nice try! I don't see a reason to lose anymore time with your strawman strategies and I think I have already exposed you enough. Again, prove me wrong by sharing your guild details with us, if you are that honest.
    Last edited by skjmjnj; 01-30-2019, 10:49 AM.

  • skjmjnj
    commented on 's reply
    No, I am not saying it's a bad thing that weaker players are given more resources, I am saying that few weaker players having acess to more resources than others is not the right thing, since not all weak players have chance to be carried in Guardian guilds. It seems like my first guess about you is true, since you haven't answered those.

    "again its spread around the bored, high ranks guild isnt going to earn much more than c3 and below, but if thats whats bothers you bump c3 to 15% crystals from points and be done."

    Haha, firstly you divide the whole income of G1 3400 to equal parts let's say 10 to be easier for calculation. And you say that 30% bonus (according to your suggestion) of these 10% from 3400 is not a big difference in comparison to G3 and C1 for example ?

    In this case 340 + 102 bonus totaling 442 crystals. This means the top 3 players ONLY by themselfs will get increase of 306 crystals bonus (without calculating the rest of the guild members).

    Now consider G3 guild with income of 4400 crystals. 30% of the 10% from 4400 is 440 + 132 = 572 crystals. This means the top 3 players ONLY by themselfs will get increase of 396 crystals bonus (without calculating the rest bonuses of the guild members).

    Now consider C1 guild with income of 1400 crystals. 30% of the 10% from 1400 is 140 + 42 = 182 crystals. This means the top 3 players ONLY by themselfs will get increase of ONLY 126 crystals.

    Now calculate all the bonus that all players receive to increase the gap even more and see how much more benefiting your suggestion is for the stronger players.

    For the milionth time, I agree with you that guild is a team effort meaning that everyone should CARRY (CONTRIBUTE) on their own weight. And distribute the reward evenly among those CONTRIBUTED. And for the milionth time the only part I do not accept in your suggestion is the part where guilds will receive bonus outside of their total usual income or give stuff to people who don't CONTRIBUTE and are in the guild just to get the benefits of being in Guardian guild.
    Last edited by skjmjnj; 01-30-2019, 10:44 AM.
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