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Changing elements- counterargument for duplicate 5 stars ONLY

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  • Changing elements- counterargument for duplicate 5 stars ONLY

    Skeletoon challenged me elsewhere (nicely) to support why changing elements could work. Now, let me put this out there early. I am strongly, 100% opposed to changing elements for 3 and 4 stars. i agree it destroys RNG unnecessarily, and doesn't make people push to progress, makes the game too easy. The argument is that ONLY 5 star monsters of whom you currently have duped, and ONLY 5 star monsters that you cannot fuse will this work for.

    Here's the argument. Natural 5 stars are the most exciting thing in the game for most people. Every single scroll you open, you're looking for that nat 5. When you get one, it should have you jumping up and down. When the lightning clears and it's a duplicate, it's like a gut punch. You can't use duplicates most places, nor in the current game is there usually going to be a place to run 2 identical units- Lushen and Taor being rare exceptions. Getting lucky enough to get a natural 5 that just sits in storage forever seems like an absolute waste, leads to frustration, and makes the game less fun. A reward for those who have spent enough or played enough to have duplicate nat 5s, to allow them to spend money, or red crystals, or farm raid for materials so they can actually use their monsters would be a welcome addition. First let me answer the pinned thread above.


    "- There exist the issue of units in their respective value do not have equal star grade throughout."
    Not a problem, no monster exists as 4 or 5 stars. Some exists as 3 or 4 stars, but as we're excluding those, making this moot

    "- The fear of abuse because fusion monsters will allow players to acquire a different element, causing an imbalance as the existing fusions have heavily desired elemental counterparts."
    Not a problem, we're excluding fusion monsters, making this moot.

    "- Destroys the RNG factor of the game unnecessarily. Unlike fusion monsters, this feature isn't solely aimed to help progression when needed."
    Plenty of RNG, natural 5s are incredibly rare, and duped natural 5s even more so. Largely an issue for high money spenders, or people who have played for several years. You still RNG on every drop, every rune power up, ever devilmon to level up the skill you want, etc.

    "- Currently meta units will now be too easily accessible for all players, reducing RNG which is deemed to be the factor that keeps the game alive."
    Hard to argue that allowing those with duplicate 5 stars of the same element only to have a way to randomly change elements would allow people to get meta units and make the game too easy. 5 stars are just too hard to get for this to shift the game that far.



    Recommendation:
    Allow a new building to change elements for natural born 5 stars. In order to use the building, you must put in two 5 stars of the same element, both must be 6 stars, awakened, and level 40. The cost is 500 frozen water, 500 flaming fire, and 500 whirling wind crystals, 250 condensed magic, and 250 pure magic. You get one of your 5 stars back as is, and the other RANDOMLY changes elements to something it was not (IE, if it's fire, it'll randomly change to wind or water- you don't get to choose). I'd think if it's light/dark it can change to any element including light/dark (whatever it wasn't), but that wind/water/fire can only change to wind/water/fire.

    It's a high cost, it's a very select group so it really can't be abused, but for those that are willing to pay it'll make the game a lot more fun. I've played this game for several years now, nothing is less fun than getting a useless natural 5. Those of us that have played for years deserve a way to get some use out of duplicate natural 5s, and using them as skill ups is a ridiculous answer for something so special and so rare.

  • #2
    So if I put 2 Vanessa inside and get Katarina. Where can I register to flip table? ._.

    Comment


    • syleth
      syleth commented
      Editing a comment
      You can always sit on your 2 Vanessa if you'd prefer. Not like it's mandatory

  • #3
    -1 for the same reasons I've stated before. You don't get a consolation prize for losing the draw. Secondly, this would pretty much destroy diversity in the game, and make arena or guild wars fairly boring and predictable. Who wants brandia when you can have a destructive ao monster like tiana or alicia? Who wants pungbaek when you can stall or strip with woosa or chiwu? Who wants juno when you can bomb with seara or heal/strip with praha? Naw..not about that life personally.

    Comment


    • syleth
      syleth commented
      Editing a comment
      And how many people have 2 Juno sitting around? And while you are selfishly not having this problem, to say that you don't like it doesn't make it's not a fair idea for others. It doesn't destroy diversity, it adds to it as it takes 2 of the same thing and makes 1 of two separate things. More, different things I'd call diverse. Frankly, if someone has 2 Juno sitting around, I think it's perfectly fair to let them pay a high cost to have a monster they can use vs. one sitting in storage. If you actually read it, it states duplicate 5 star of the same element only. You really think there are so many people sitting on duplicate Juno that it will shift the meta when half of them get Seara, and half get Praha. Oh, and the cost is high enough only those who already have 25+ 6 star monsters can likely even do the rifts enough to get the mats. You think those people aren't already rocking pretty good arena teams?

    • FooJub
      FooJub commented
      Editing a comment
      syleth many, I would imagine. Isn't that the whole point of your idea? And while you are presuming I haven't had repeats, try again m8 and maybe don't presume next time that just because I don't like your idea means I've never had a dupe. It would destroy diversity because everyone would go "bad"unit -> good unit. Just like the theomars infection. And yes I think for sure there are many with duplicate juno. Literally someone in this forum has 4 vanessa, and this is a small forum. I don't think said people with good rift teams and 25+ 6* already have good arena teams. I am one of said people, and can only reach c2 tops cuz I lack a good aoe def breaker, stripper, or 2nd lushen still.

  • #4
    I don't think this is a many thing, so that isn't my point. I think this is a significant minority, but for those few, this is a big and relatively easy to fix problem. What 5 stars do you have duplicates of?


    Another thought, and not one I've really reflected on. What if by a lower cost process, you could "sacrifice" a duped nat 5- again, ONLY a duped nat 5- for like 5 devilmon. Again, at least you get some use out of it, and this avoids the extra monsters. I'm up for any reasonable idea to get some use out of a duped nat 5, as using one as a devilmon is an absolute waste.

    Comment


    • FooJub
      FooJub commented
      Editing a comment
      5 devilmon? Hahahahaha fat chance at most 2, and even that's not realistic. 1 dupe = 1 skillup. To convert that into something that can skillup ANY monster...naw. As for dupes I've gotten a dupe teshar, leo, and bering

  • #5
    -1 against this.. I do have 2 fire panda & 2 wind valkyrie as of now cuz I have some bad luck in summoning.. tho I hate the fact tat I got dups and esp fused 5* somemore but I will still disagree with this idea no matter how high is the cost.

    Reason being is this is a RNG game and shld purely rely on random luck when doing summoning and if you happen to get a dup, tat's just too bad.. you have some options to choose either rune them differently and use for different stages or store them first as skill up if you get the next element on your next summoning. As high or end game players I have to say no matter how high the cost is, imo to them is just like yay! Finally can get off those dups 5 without breaking a sweat cuz they for sure can farm effortlessly to get all the materials require for changing as it just take time. Sooner or later, eventually those strong players will have newer and more nat 5* and become even ridiculous stronger in game. This in turn will result badly in greatly affected the newer & mid game players and many pple will quit except for those high or end game players.

    So this idea shldn't work at all as it is slightly more benefit to those high game players (have more nat & dups 5*) rather than new & mid players. And pls dun tell me tat eventually the new players will benefit from it too once they keep progressing in game.. bcuz by or at tat point of time... dunno or can't imagine what level have the high game players already reach and number of xxx nat 5* they have in game.. this will be bad!

    Comment


    • #6
      They could do transcendence pieces crafting like how the current legendary piece crafting works. But I bet that'll make a lot of f2p players angry.

      Comment


      • #7
        Sweet my only dupe is Jamire. Either il have my dragon trio. Or double zaiross

        genuinly no. I dont think it should be in the game.

        Comment


        • syleth
          syleth commented
          Editing a comment
          Why? Are you also worried about it overbalancing arena?

      • #8
        ILove, that's going a bit overboard. If your point is the high players already have a bunch of nat 5s, how is giving them one more making a difference. If they have 2 Rakan, and now they have 1 Rakan and 1 Taor, that's going to overbalance the game and cause a bunch of people to quit? I don't see that. I do agree that in general it's going to help more late game players. That said, I don't see anything wrong with a reward for those who have played the game for 3+ years.

        I guess I see 2 major viewpoints forming.. On one side, many people who have a duplicate 5 star sitting in storage with no possible use want SOMETHING they can use it for. Then you have the people that are worried it'll make the top people too strong, and worry how it would affect them. I had 2 Rakans before I could clear TOA normal, so this is not purely an issue for end game users though I agree it will affect them most. I personally see it as far more fair to allow a way for people to use each, and I think if the cost is high, that will keep everyone from doing it all the time. Especially since you can't guarantee you get a certain attribute- and we all know, if you're at the highest level, there are very few monsters that are going to help you more in arena.

        Comment


        • ILoveSW89
          ILoveSW89 commented
          Editing a comment
          Lol.. rly? Pls if you have seara, make a different, if you have zaiross make a different if you have psamathe make a different so what are you trying to say?? I can't understand at all.. and you yourself also mentioned "I dun see anything wrong with a reward for those who have played the game for 3+ years" just based on your this sentence can already sense tat you suggest this idea purely for your ownself benefit and think of your own. I also been playing the game for over 2 yrs but I nvr tot of this at all as you have to think for all players and not only the late game players. I hope this is clear and I will -1 to this regardless of what opinions as it is totally ridiculous and not realistic at all. Somemore pls dun forget this is a pure RNG game, if this is implement it will also break the game as no longer rng.. once you have dups you can trade and gain another same monster with different element. Just imagine 2 jamire doing the trade.. wow doesn't matter if it is fire or water cuz both zaiross & verad OP! Or 2 Juno yay become praha or seara! Not logical at all and I just can't accept it imo -_-

          P.S: I dun think I am going overboard but it is your idea tat doesn't make sense and how to expect others to agree with u :x

      • #9
        -1 to this. 10 letters

        Comment


        • syleth
          syleth commented
          Editing a comment
          Care to say why?

      • #10
        +1 to the idea, I want to change my 2 spare Fire Monkes for a Wind and Light Monkeys (and have all colors now!), spare Ethna for Craka and spare Triton for Mannanan

        Comment


        • ChouTenshi
          ChouTenshi commented
          Editing a comment
          DrakoBeoulve - Might want to read the suggestion carefully.

          Originally posted by syleth View Post
          Allow a new building to change elements for natural born 5 stars. In order to use the building, you must put in two 5 stars of the same element, both must be 6 stars, awakened, and level 40. The cost is 500 frozen water, 500 flaming fire, and 500 whirling wind crystals, 250 condensed magic, and 250 pure magic. You get one of your 5 stars back as is, and the other RANDOMLY changes elements to something it was not (IE, if it's fire, it'll randomly change to wind or water- you don't get to choose). I'd think if it's light/dark it can change to any element including light/dark (whatever it wasn't), but that wind/water/fire can only change to wind/water/fire.

        • DrakoBeoulve
          DrakoBeoulve commented
          Editing a comment
          I've read it, still want Craka and Mannanan

      • #11
        -1

        Originally posted by syleth View Post
        "- The fear of abuse because fusion monsters will allow players to acquire a different element, causing an imbalance as the existing fusions have heavily desired elemental counterparts."
        Not a problem, we're excluding fusion monsters, making this moot.
        So, f*** everyone who has the misfortune of summoning fusion monsters? >_>
        Yeah, you're bullsh*ttin' us.

        Heck, even f*** everyone who converts their monsters into fusion monsters, right?

        Originally posted by syleth View Post
        "- Destroys the RNG factor of the game unnecessarily. Unlike fusion monsters, this feature isn't solely aimed to help progression when needed."
        Plenty of RNG, natural 5s are incredibly rare, and duped natural 5s even more so. Largely an issue for high money spenders, or people who have played for several years. You still RNG on every drop, every rune power up, ever devilmon to level up the skill you want, etc.
        And how does this justify your reasoning exactly?
        Because RNG exists, we need a way to make RNG exist less?
        What kind of lottery allows you to exchange your prize, just because you win two of the same thing?

        Originally posted by syleth View Post
        "- Currently meta units will now be too easily accessible for all players, reducing RNG which is deemed to be the factor that keeps the game alive."
        Hard to argue that allowing those with duplicate 5 stars of the same element only to have a way to randomly change elements would allow people to get meta units and make the game too easy. 5 stars are just too hard to get for this to shift the game that far.
        So, if I summon 5 Teshar, I'm entitled to have a Perna? >_>
        No, I don't think so. Also, I wouldn't want to roll into a fuse-able Sigmarus.

        Comment


        • ILoveSW89
          ILoveSW89 commented
          Editing a comment
          Lol@ChouTenshi, yes ik but I am just trying my hardest to be polite to him since he said me being overboard!
          Last edited by ILoveSW89; 03-16-2017, 06:03 PM.

        • Cylarch
          Cylarch commented
          Editing a comment
          WOW I congratulate you for being consistent in being the Games most sociable peron ever! You did it very well WOW!

        • ChouTenshi
          ChouTenshi commented
          Editing a comment
          Originally posted by Cylarch
          WOW I congratulate you for being consistent in being the Games most sociable peron ever! You did it very well WOW!
          Cylarch - Oh, look. A cwanky-wanky no-lifer who has so much free time that all he does is snipe at players who disagree with him in the forums.
          Last edited by ChouTenshi; 03-17-2017, 04:30 AM. Reason: Added Cylarch's comment, so they can't edit it ;)

      • #12
        Definitely a no -1

        A lot of people including myself have duplicate nat 5 but changing colors means monster trading. Colors does not mean they are the same if the monsters each has a unique name when awakened that makes them independent from their siblings.

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