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  • Dmg Calculation and ATB explanation

    so.... i have a feeling a lot of ppl dont know or dont fully understand (or dont care lol) how dmg calculation and atb ticks are working
    thats why i'm creating this thread to try and make a few things clearer about how it works (we will have some math here so pls bear with me - i will try to simplify it as much as possible)
    before i start i want to give credits to ChouTenshi - i didnt know most of the info myself up until 2-3 months ago

    this thread will be split into 2 (to prevent having 2 sticky threads - we already have quite a few of those)


    Damage Calculation


    i will be explaining how atk based dmg is calculated - hp/def/spd based dmg is very similar to atk (if its still unclear for some ppl i can add it later on)




    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Lets start:

    first we will need to know a few values to be able to calculate the dmg:

    1) Total Attack (atk) - consists of base atk and added atk from runes, leader skills, passives and atk buffs.

    2) Total Critical Damage (cd) - consists of base cd and added cd from runes, leader skills and passives.

    3) Damage Multiplier - the exact multiplier can be found in various places, i usually check summoner war wiki.

    4) extra dmg from skill ups - the +5/10/15% dmg you see as a skill up to a skill.

    these 4 values are enough to calculate how much dmg you can do before the reduction from defense/passives.
    to calculate more exact dmg u would need this 5th value:

    5) Total Defense (def) - consists of base def and added def from runes, leader skills, passives and def buffs.
    5b) in case there is a monster with a passive that reduces dmg (for example Darion/Dias) the reduction will be calculated after the dmg reduction from def.



    a few tips for calculating these values:
    1) all extra stats from runes will be show in a green '+#' next to your base stat (pretty basic stuff i assume most ppl know)

    2) extra stats from leader skills and buildings are calculated by base stats (for example 10% atk from Ancient Sword would add 10% of base atk)

    3) atk buff adds 50% to your total atk (atk break reduces 50%)
    def buff adds 70% to your total def (def break reduces 70%)

    (all taken from in game help tab)

    4) Reflect buff reduces the dmg done to 70% and returns 30% of the dmg to the enemy
    passives that work similarly have different percentages according to the description of the passive

    other damage Reduction passives take effect AFTER Reflect in addition to reducing Actual Damage (example: Reflect Buff + Knighthood = 59.5%:30%)

    4) added stats from passives depends on the passive - sometimes the added amount is according to the base atk and sometimes its according to the total atk





    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    first we will start by calculating pure dmg without reduction from def/passives - once we have that we can calculate the actual dmg done
    i will be using the 4 values from before - if anyone is interested there will be a more detailed formula in the end of this post (where i will break each value to his sub components)

    Pure dmg formula:

    1) critical hit:

    Total Atk * Multiplier * (1 + dmg from skillups + Total cd)

    2) non-critical hit / bomb dmg / heals / shields:
    Total Atk * Multiplier * (1 + dmg from skillups)

    3) crushing hit/fatal blow:
    (Total Atk * Multiplier * (1 + dmg from skillups)) * 1.3

    4) glancing hit:
    (Total Atk * Multiplier * (1 + dmg from skillups)) * 0.7
    (i am not completely sure about #3/4 but this seems to be the case according to the in game help - if anyone knows otherwise pls be sure to correct me)

    5) brand + bonus dmg from skills:
    this is how it seems to be working (showing the calc for a crit):
    for Lyn
    (Total Atk * Multiplier * (1 + dmg from skillups)) * (1 + Skill_Bonus_Dmg + Brand)
    for Akhamamir
    (Total Atk * Multiplier * (1 + dmg from skillups)) * (1+ Brand) * (1 + Skill_Bonus_Dmg * number_of_debuffs)


    okay - that wasnt so bad right?





    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    after we calculated pure dmg we will now want to know the actual dmg done after reduction by defense


    the dmg reduction calculation is:
    Def dmg reduction = 1000 / (Total def * 3.5 + 1140)
    (as far as i know it is up to date)



    a few things to note about dmg reduction from defense:
    1) defense doesnt reduce dmg from bombs at all!

    2) when using skills that ignore defense - it doesnt completely ignore defense, it simply calculates using the same formula as if defense was 0

    (would be 1000/(0*3.5 + 1140) = 1000/1140 = 87.719%)

    3) the ratio between dmg reduction and defense is not linear! the more defense u have the less more defense would affect the dmg reduction
    for example:
    with 0 def : 1000/(0*3.5 +1140) = 87.719%
    with 500 def : 1000/(500*3.5 +1140) = 34.602%
    with 1500 def: 1000/(1500*3.5 +1140) = 15.649%
    with 2500 def: 1000/(2500*3.5 +1140) = 10.111%





    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    ok so we have pure dmg and dmg reduction - the last step is to multiply both and receive the actual dmg done

    Actual dmg = Pure dmg * Def Dmg Reduction


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------





    thats pretty much it
    some skills behave a bit different since their multiplier depends on several stats or hp ratio which makes it harder to calculate


    hope this helps a bit
    if anyone have any updates, questions, corrections or clarifications be sure to post them





    if anyone needs a TL;DR just read the bold parts of the thread






    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    as i promised for those that can tolerate math a bit more - a more detailed version of the pure dmg fomula : (if u cant tolerate math u can stop reading here XD)
    Total Atk * Multiplier * (1 + dmg from skillups + Total cd)

    lets break it down to its components:
    (base atk * (1 + atk% from runes + atk% from glory buildings + atk% from leader skills) + flat atk from runes) * skill multiplier * (1 + dmg from skillups% + base cd% + cd% from runes + cd% from glory building + cd% from leader skill)


    thats it
    (i ignored passives because the buff might be applied differently depending on the passive - some r according to base atk and some are according to total atk)






    Attack Bar Explanation


    im just gonna leave here a quote containing a detailed explanation
    if anyone have any questions about it be sure to reply and ill try to help the best i can

    Originally posted by ChouTenshi View Post
    1) Each tick will give each unit ATB equal to 7% of their total Spd.

    So...a unit with 100 total Spd will have 7 ATB per tick, and a unit with 90 total Spd will have 6.3 ATB per tick.


    2) Units become eligible for turns once any of them get at least 100 ATB. ATB technically has no limit, as far as we can see; however, ATB cannot drop farther than 0.

    As long as no one else is faster and no ATB manipulation is made, a 100 Spd unit will have the first turn after 15 ticks.


    3) Whoever has the highest ATB at the start of the tick is granted the turn. Upon starting a turn, the unit's ATB is dropped to 0.

    Turn priority goes to whoever has the highest ATB at the start of the tick, not whoever reaches 100 ATB first.


    4) In the event that multiple units have the same ATB at the start of the tick, turn priority will go to the unit with the higher total Spd.

    With Leo on the field or while fighting against the Ancient Lich, Spd is limited; but the turn order will be determined by the units' Spd prior to Leo or the Ancient Lich's passive taking effect (if no ATB manipulation was made).


    5) In the event that multiple units have the same ATB at the start of the tick and same total Spd, turn priority will go to the unit positioned farther on the left.

    This can be proved by watching enemies in ToA. Without any Spd or ATB manipulation, enemy clones will have their turn order based on their positioning.


    6) ATB manipulation will almost always add or subtract exactly how much the skill states or (very very very rarely) be inaccurate.
    6.1) Example: Verdehile's Boiling Blood will add 20 ATB to his party's ATB whenever he gets a critical.
    6.2) Example: Konamiya's Resurge will add 100 ATB to the target's ATB. Remember #3.
    6.3) Example: Baretta's Turbulence will completely drop the target's ATB to 0.
    6.4) Example: Mei's Destructive Punch will subtract 100 ATB from the target's ATB, not deplete it to 0. Remember that ATB can fill to over 100.

    Someone commented this in the Wikia a while ago:
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
    100 Spd 20 27 34 41 48 55 62 69 76 83 90 97 104 -> 0
    150 Spd 0 10.5 21 31.5 42 52.5 63 73.5 84 94.5 105 -> 0 10.5 21
    So, even with a 20 ATB head-start, the 100 Spd unit will still get a turn AFTER the 150 Spd unit does.

    These are all the rules I can think of right now. XD
    Last edited by Kalionys; 01-23-2018, 05:36 PM. Reason: added an explanation about atb :)

  • #2
    Originally posted by Kalionys View Post
    def buff adds 70% to your total def (atk break reduces 70%)
    You mean "def break", right? XD

    Originally posted by Kalionys View Post
    (base atk * (1 + atk% from runes + atk% from glory buildings + atk% from leader skills) + flat atk from runes) * skill multiplier * (1 + dmg from skillups% + base cd% + cd% from golry building + cd% from leader skill)
    Other than misspelling "Glory", you forgot to mention CD% from runes.

    Originally posted by Kalionys View Post
    (i ignored passives because the buff might be applied differently depending on the passive - some r according to base atk and some are according to total atk)
    I don't think I've seen one that scales with total Atk yet.

    Another thing to add is that the Reflect buff splits the Actual Damage 70%:30%.
    Reflect passives act similarly but may have different splits. (Maggi's is 85%:15%, Velfinodon's is 90%:10%, Sonora's is 91%:30%)
    Damage Reduction passives take effect AFTER Reflect in addition to reducing Actual Damage. (example: Reflect Buff + Knighthood = 59.5%:30%)

    Originally posted by Kalionys View Post
    2) non-critical hit or bomb dmg:
    Total Atk * Multiplier * (1 + dmg from skillups)
    Lastly, this might be irrelevant, but may as well kill another bird with the same stone and mention that this is similar to how Recovery and Shield skill ups work, too.
    Last edited by ChouTenshi; 05-31-2017, 02:34 PM.

    Comment


    • Kalionys
      Kalionys commented
      Editing a comment
      corrected
      added
      thx

      as for the passives that arent according to base atk - i think most of them arent a buff u get right from the start of battle
      also if there would be a passive like that in the future it would be correct for him as well
      Last edited by Kalionys; 05-31-2017, 03:26 PM.

  • #3
    Awesome thanks for posting that! I'm sure it will help a lot of newer players and maybe one or two of the veterans as well

    Comment


    • Kalionys
      Kalionys commented
      Editing a comment
      glad i could help

  • #4
    After seeing this, I decided to finally test the calculations. What I came up with was...

    Multiplier: 520% of Atk + 16% of Target's Max HP
    Atk = 790 + 1330
    CD = 233%

    Lushen LDR = Atk +33%
    Light Sanc = Atk +21%
    Ancient Swd = Atk +20%
    Fallen AG = CD +25%

    Skill up = Dmg +20%
    Dmg Bonus = Dmg +30%

    GB10 Boss MAX HP: 170070 HP
    GB10 Boss Def Broken: floor(1796 * 0.30) = 538

    Total Atk: ceiling[790 * (1 + 0.33 + 0.21 + 0.20) + 1330] = 2705 Atk
    Buffed Atk: floor(2705 * 1.5) = 4057
    CD = 2.33 + 0.25 = 2.58

    (5.20 * 4057 + 0.16 * 170070) * (1 + 0.20 + 2.58) * (1 + 0.30 + 0.25) = 283034.2284
    283034.2284 * 1000 / (3.5 * 538 + 1140) = 93626

    If you're not certain, this calculation is of the damage Lyn did against the GB10 Ancient Giant. There is a waggle, so it can be higher or lower than the calculated damage.

    So, the formula for her Phantom Crush on a Crit while targeting an enemy immune to Stun would be:

    Pure_Dmg = (5.2 * Atk + 0.16 * Target_MAX_HP) * (1 + Skill_Ups + CD) * (1 + Dmg_Bonus + Brand)

    This means that the 25% from Brand is separate from the Skill Up Damage Bonus and CD%.

    Additionally, the Skill Damage Bonus seems to fit in the same area as the Brand. This could mean that that damage bonuses from Sige's Dark Slash, Tosi's Light Slash, Akhamamir's Mach Crush, etc. also fit in that area.

    So...

    Pure_Dmg = Base_Dmg * (1 + Skill_Up_Bonus + Total_CD) * (1 + Skill_Bonus_Dmg + Brand)

    (I'll also have to change up my wordings from now on for this to make more sense.)
     

    Comment


    • Kalionys
      Kalionys commented
      Editing a comment
      Hmmm well brand kinda makes sense that its apart from the rest of the calc
      Pure dmg without brand *1.25 = pure dmg with calc more or less
      Gonna test it a bit before updating
      But the bonus dmg could be monster specific so its kinda hard to confirm

    • ChouTenshi
      ChouTenshi commented
      Editing a comment
      Kalionys - Hmm...I'll try to test with my Akhamamir tomorrow at GB10.

    • ChouTenshi
      ChouTenshi commented
      Editing a comment
      Kalionys - I did the test with Akhamamir and found that it DOES work in a similar way.

      Mach Crush: Pure_Dmg = Base_Dmg * (1 + Skill_Up + CD) * (1 + Brand) * (1 + Bonus_Dmg * Debuff_Count)

      Also, I found that the bonus damage applies to the debuffs that each enemy has, not all debuffs on the field. :/

      Anyway, yeah. It's safe to say that this might apply to all skills or passives that grant increased damage.
      Last edited by ChouTenshi; 06-10-2017, 12:02 AM.

  • #5
    Just use tool.swap.one dmg calculator

    Comment


    • Kalionys
      Kalionys commented
      Editing a comment
      u could do that
      u could also verify the calc they do is accurate

      + i dont trust 3rd party apps no matter how many ppl use them..... with all the hacks going on i am a bit paranoid
      so for ppl like me this can be very useful

    • ChouTenshi
      ChouTenshi commented
      Editing a comment
      Also, the damage calculator doesn't include Brand, Damage Reduction Passives, Reflect, or Skill Bonus Damage.

  • #6
    added atb explanation into the thread
    if someone thinks its too much for one thread pls let me know

    Comment


    • #7
      How does immunity and block beneficial effect effect attack bar boost/reduction

      Comment


      • Kalionys
        Kalionys commented
        Editing a comment
        Immunity blocks any atb reduction
        Block beneficial effects doesnt affect atb boosting

    • #8
      What is tick sir sorry I'm a newbie

      Comment


      • Kalionys
        Kalionys commented
        Editing a comment
        its ok - im guessing alot of players dont know about ticks or how they work (which is why i added it here :X )

        a "tick" is a sort of a time stamp - 1 tick of a real clock (u can check any analog clock for reference) would be 1 second (or minute or hour)

        whats explained in the guide is that in order to determine the next turn - a special clock is turning in-battle
        for every tick in that clock - every monster gains 7%spd to its atb

        once a monster hits 100atb it will move which will deplete their atb to 0

        there are some rules of how these atb ticks work (for example what happens if 2 monsters have over 100 atb?)

        if you look at the table example in the 1st post:
        there r 12 ticks in total and its explains how much atb there is in each tick for each monster
        the ticks in bold shows when the monster took a turn


        if you want to see this in the game (its a bit hard tbh) turn the spd to x1
        and try to look at the atb of your monster's as it goes up (you will see it go up in equal amounts each time - while each monster has its unique amount) - wil be easier to see if u have 2 monsters where one is considerably faster than the other one

    • #9
      Ohhh so thats it. Thankyouu

      Comment

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