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The Nerf train has left the station all aboard!

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  • *NotChow*
    started a topic The Nerf train has left the station all aboard!

    The Nerf train has left the station all aboard!

    so now that we see c2u isnt afraid to nerf units who deserves it, we are starting to see calls for ALOT of nerfs on units you DONT deserve it. just to name a few:

    Fran
    Verde
    Aiger
    Tiana
    Perna
    Lushen
    Twins.
    Seara

    what are you thoughts on the recent increase cries for nerfing strong but not broken op monsters?

    i said it years ago before the nerfs started that if c2u does decide to nerf, it will spiral down a slippery slope to where everyone will cry for nerfs to units who gives them a slight bit of trouble in the game. when do we stop? as soon as you nerf #1 #2 takes his spot. so do we bring everyone down to slime tier? or should we have a king to reign?

    honestly, i knew from the first nerf that eventually well will see nerfs being asked on units who are balanced, even if theyre perfectly balance, but happen to be the "best" it still "warrants" a nerf in the eyes of the public.

  • SithCats
    commented on 's reply
    Yeah, we're not reaching a consensus here. Let's just agree to disagree.

  • *NotChow*
    commented on 's reply
    immatx this isnt about "winning" its about common sense... which you clearly lack...

  • immatx
    commented on 's reply
    *NotChow* Lol ok dude. It's really not worth my time to continue this. You'd clearly rather "win" than admit you're wrong.

  • *NotChow*
    commented on 's reply
    immatx let me explain yet again even though i know your dumb self wouldnt get it or chooses to ignore it because of ignorance. but out of 43% of tesa win rate, it couldve been that 100% of those wins were due to countering perna. in which case saying it isnt reliable is STUPID. but again you simple post random rates as if you know what youre talking about.

    secondly, perna rates maters due to you wanting to argue that there is no reliable counters to it that is farmable. again see point 1.

    3rdly. you want to nerf perna in pve yet keep using "theres no reliable counter" as if pve could possibly counter any team we bring. thats shear stupidity. at its finest.

    over the years after "debating" with you i cant tell if youre dumb, trolling or actually ignorant. either way the same old song and dance is getting boring especially when you clearly suffering from dunning krugger effect, honestly get out of fighter 3 people you try and "debate" the game. ive taken ftp accounts that has less days than you further than you with 1 or 2 frr so whats your excuse?

    honestly tires of your crap logic of "oh cause hes rare" or "im going to bring rates into this and be 100% cluesless about what the rates means" or "i brought rates into this but you cant" just stop its getting annoying. its like talking to a child about paying bills and he constantly just ask "why dont you just get more money". whoever said ignorance is bliss was stupid. because ignorance is annoying AF when theyre trying to argue.

  • immatx
    commented on 's reply
    SithCats Yeah that's kind of my point. Just taking away the leader skill gets him out of those dungeons. Although fyi a lot of people use Sig in nb10, if speed tuned correctly single hits are fine.

    I sort of agree. Pvp should definitely be weighted more heavily than pve, but it's ridiculous to continuously nerf units that are only good in one mode despite having units only slightly worse than them that are good in almost every mode go nerf free. Perna is the best mon in the game, so even if it's not a big nerf he should probably get changed as well if they're going to keep nerfing all these units that only do things in rta. I doubt they will do it, but they should.

    So can Perna, and he can do it through immunity. Her S2 doesn't reset vio proc chance actually. She has average cooldowns are her S2 is 1 turn longer than Perna's. Yeah the speed lead is insane, but without it she wouldn't be used nearly as much.

  • immatx
    commented on 's reply
    *NotChow* This is the last time I'm going to try to explain this to you, I'll try to do so as if you were a kindergartener so maybe you'll be able to understand.

    At the very beginning of the convo, from initial post, it is established that Perna has no issues because of reset cd, anti-rez, and farmable counters: Theo and Tesa. I say that Theo is not a counter to Perna, and that Tesa is unreliable, disagreeing partially with his point. I cite Tesa's win rate in rta as a reference for why Tesa is unreliable. I did not say what Tesa's pick rate was because it doesn't matter. It would matter if either A) it was incredibly high 30+%, because as a counter pick you expect it to be on the lowish end of healthy, or B) if it was incredibly low sub 1.5% as a farmable unit that's also a counter pick. A) would disprove what I'm saying, because it would mean he was viable beyond the counter pick role, meaning he was reliable. B) would further prove what I was suggesting, because it would mean he wasn't even reliable enough to bring into matches in which he was perfectly poised even though presumable everyone has a Tesa built. But it's not either of those, it's right in the healthy range for a counter pick. Bringing it up changes nothing in the discussion, so it's completely irrelevant.

    Meanwhile lets look at the other rates mentioned. Tian Lang has no bearing on this discussion so his rates are irrelevant. Same with Tyron, same with Bolverk. None of those mons have a direct rational relationship with Perna, so their rates don't add anything to the discussion.

    Perna's rates would be relevant if I was saying that he should be nerfed in pvp. But I don't think anyone stated that he should be nerfed in pvp in this comment thread, correct me if I'm wrong. Thus, Perna's rates don't matter because they wouldn't be affected by my proposed nerf.

    Hopefully you understand now. Moving on.

    "twins dominate pve so nerf is irrelevant" this is an appeal to hypocrisy, that's a logical fallacy.

    "there is no counter in pve so i guess every mon needs to be nerfed..." this is a red herring, also a logical fallacy.

    So yes, bad logic is bad logic.

    Dunning Kruger indeed.

  • SithCats
    commented on 's reply
    First, I think you're overrating Perna's utility in GB10 and NB10 outside of his leader skill. He's the wrong element for GB10, and his attacks are all single hits which makes him less than ideal for breaking the Lich's shield in NB10. He can't even tank in Giants because the boss hits AoE.

    But the reason I think he doesn't need any adjustment is that I don't think being good in PVE content should warrant nerfs except in VERY rare circumstances (like twins when they were first released).

    With the exception of situations like that, I think nerfs should mostly be determined by PVP content (buffs are another story, but that's now under discussion here). You having something OP is only a problem when it affects another player. Since Perna's leader skill is PVE-only, I see no reason to mess with it.

    Seara, on the other hand, just has a bit too much in her kit I think. She can insta-kill a significant number of monsters all by herself thanks to her bombs, her 2nd grants her a free turn which resets her chance of violent procs, her skills have relatively short cooldowns, and 24% universal speed lead is very good. I think that all merits a slight nerf, and leader skill would do the least to mess up her kit. Though I wouldn't object to changing her 2nd skill so that it simply grants 100% ATB instead of an automatic extra turn, I think most Seara owners would probably rather keep that and lose the leader skill instead.

  • *NotChow*
    commented on 's reply
    immatx how are "counters" not relevant here? it was discussed... how is rates not relevant when you brought up tesa's rates... hmmm sounds like when you start using crap as an arguement you rune out of counter argument when people fling your own crap back at ya...

    dunning kruger effect....

  • immatx
    commented on 's reply
    *NotChow* Can you ever have a conversation without bringing up things that are completely irrelevant?

  • *NotChow*
    commented on 's reply
    immatx please tell me how gb10 can counter a bella def break? oh it cant. bella needs a nerf! XD

  • immatx
    commented on 's reply
    *NotChow* fallacious

    fallacious

    Actually yours is lol

  • *NotChow*
    commented on 's reply
    twins dominate pve so nerf is irrelevant.

    there is no counter in pve so i guess every mon needs to be nerfed...

    bad logic is bad immatx

  • immatx
    commented on 's reply
    *NotChow* I don't think the enemy can ban Perna in pve

  • *NotChow*
    commented on 's reply
    immatx kinda like how to can ban perna. OMG LOOK AT THAT LOGIC HAHA GTFO

    Edit: look at that perna is now useless in pho since you can just ban him guess he doesn’t excel in everything and doesn’t need a nerf after all
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