Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Nerf train has left the station all aboard!

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The Nerf train has left the station all aboard!

    so now that we see c2u isnt afraid to nerf units who deserves it, we are starting to see calls for ALOT of nerfs on units you DONT deserve it. just to name a few:

    Fran
    Verde
    Aiger
    Tiana
    Perna
    Lushen
    Twins.
    Seara

    what are you thoughts on the recent increase cries for nerfing strong but not broken op monsters?

    i said it years ago before the nerfs started that if c2u does decide to nerf, it will spiral down a slippery slope to where everyone will cry for nerfs to units who gives them a slight bit of trouble in the game. when do we stop? as soon as you nerf #1 #2 takes his spot. so do we bring everyone down to slime tier? or should we have a king to reign?

    honestly, i knew from the first nerf that eventually well will see nerfs being asked on units who are balanced, even if theyre perfectly balance, but happen to be the "best" it still "warrants" a nerf in the eyes of the public.

  • #2
    Well, Fran and Verde are F2P monsters and were probably put into place to counter the P2W ones and give some level of balance. Personally I think if they did more of that, then the calls wouldn't be as focused. Maybe buff some of the lower monsters again to make them as counters that can be built. Like how they buffed a few revivers and cleansers/immunity monsters after Labyrinth came out. P2W monsters will always be better, but if some of the F2P ones (2* & 3*) get buffed, they can give a fighting chance.

    Twins on the other hand, the mechanic is really the problem, short of getting rid of it ( like how you can't use it in Lab), they can't be nerfed easy.

    Comment


    • #3
      People, are the biggest problem. Whatever is nerfed will only satiate them temporarily as they will move on the next "OP" units right after the patch.

      Violent runes. The other issue that is not the monsters fault. You know going into most fights with a perna that you're either gonna lock it down or get wiped by vio procs.

      Rarely do I ever see a unit I think needs nerfing.

      Comment


      • *NotChow*
        *NotChow* commented
        Editing a comment
        couldnt have said it better myself

      • ShenSammaN'Sei
        ShenSammaN'Sei commented
        Editing a comment
        Seriously tho, I think nerfing is absolutely stupid, and there is literally only 1 mon I think it should be done to and that's it

      • Vizelion
        Vizelion commented
        Editing a comment
        Because for some people crying is easier than thinking

    • #4
      many of these mons wont be nerfed imo (at best a slight change to multipliers) simply because changing them now would be too late

      but if i can be completely honest
      1) fran is kinda strong for a nat3 - at the very least a lower chance to stun (and im the f2p that with her can compete in higher rta - but i dont rta so....)

      2) tiana (and any ignore resist + immunity mon) is kinda broken - if i dont have a tiana and i need a strip for my AO it means that with other aoe strippers i automatically lose (lets say) 7% of my atks (from not successful strips on some of the enemy monsters - i dont think that failing to strip everyone is insta lose... so its not '15% of my atks r losses' but it depends on the monsters that resists the strip)

      3) dunno if verde and aegir needs a nerf - i dont even have aegir built and my verde is pve only.... the only time i lost to them in pvp was because i chose a bad team + my runes werent on par

      4) twins r somewhat broken - like said above
      just by not allowing the usage of their skills with boss passive was the only way they could make the stage harder (and not ez mode with twins)
      but i dont see a way to change them without making them useless (at best a change to multipliers)

      dunno about lushen/perna/seara - lushen is somewhat of a nat4.5 that allows f2p to cleave arena (and other areas)... without it it would be much harder for f2p... but at the same time he is a bit strong for a nat4
      i have seara so im biased (dont nerf my seara :X )
      i dont have perna but i dont it deserves a nerf.....


      the list probably doesnt stop there though

      Comment


      • Poledo
        Poledo commented
        Editing a comment
        The thing about twins is they are just fun. Being Nat4's they're pretty accessible, although I still haven't pulled a Talia yet Grr! Fun is the point though, and in PvP there are plenty of counters and in RTA the right ban shuts down a twin comp.

      • akino25
        akino25 commented
        Editing a comment
        nerf Fran =( ?
        i just made 3-4 of her ... and and !!! it's fully skill up !!!

      • Kalionys
        Kalionys commented
        Editing a comment
        Poledo
        im not complaining about accessibility - like lushen they r making easier life even for f2p
        i dont use them in rta but they kinda make any pve content in the game ez
        the only way com2us could make tart bosses hard was to have them exclude team-up skills in the passive

    • #5
      I don't have any problems with nerfs as long as it's not being abused. If buffing is the only way they were to balance the game then power creep could get out of hand pretty quick. Plus nerfing a couple units is easier than buffing a couple hundred.

      Fran: She's definitely a bit too strong, but her utility scaling off of rune quality makes it less of a problem. She's also filling a role that most people don't have access to which is probably inflating her use, especially when cc is so prevalent in rta. Removing the stun on her S1 would most likely be enough.

      Verde: I don't think he needs any changes. He's just the result of an emphasis on turn cycling. It would be better to include a new family of monsters or reworking current ones to have more counterplay to this.

      Aiger: Same as Verde.

      Tiana: Making the other S3 aoe strippers more reliable would be better.

      Perna: Absolutely. Not because he's broken in any one mode, but because he's top tier in almost every mode. Giving him a res or acc dungeon leader skill would probably be enough. Or alternatively changing awakening bonus to acc. The leader change would only affect pve while the awakening change would really only affect pvp. He just needs his overall usefulness brought down.

      Lushen: He's fine. Power wise he's probably a bit over the top but he's not as well rounded as Perna.

      Twins: Martina is probably a bit too strong but I think the others are fine. Most of the combinations are pve only and considering how long the game has been running it's not really a problem anymore to help out players with their teams.

      Seara: She's fine.

      I think overall its because there's not enough counterplay in the game. That's why we always see the same units in rta having obnoxiously high pick rates. It's really hard to punish a lot of those picks. Outside of Seara, none of those mons really have solid counterplay options, which is probably why they get complained about more. They're definitely not as strong as many other mons so outside of arguably Fran and Perna it's not a question of kit strength.

      Edit: pick rates not win rates
      Last edited by immatx; 05-22-2019, 04:22 AM.

      Comment


      • SithCats
        SithCats commented
        Editing a comment
        First, I think you're overrating Perna's utility in GB10 and NB10 outside of his leader skill. He's the wrong element for GB10, and his attacks are all single hits which makes him less than ideal for breaking the Lich's shield in NB10. He can't even tank in Giants because the boss hits AoE.

        But the reason I think he doesn't need any adjustment is that I don't think being good in PVE content should warrant nerfs except in VERY rare circumstances (like twins when they were first released).

        With the exception of situations like that, I think nerfs should mostly be determined by PVP content (buffs are another story, but that's now under discussion here). You having something OP is only a problem when it affects another player. Since Perna's leader skill is PVE-only, I see no reason to mess with it.

        Seara, on the other hand, just has a bit too much in her kit I think. She can insta-kill a significant number of monsters all by herself thanks to her bombs, her 2nd grants her a free turn which resets her chance of violent procs, her skills have relatively short cooldowns, and 24% universal speed lead is very good. I think that all merits a slight nerf, and leader skill would do the least to mess up her kit. Though I wouldn't object to changing her 2nd skill so that it simply grants 100% ATB instead of an automatic extra turn, I think most Seara owners would probably rather keep that and lose the leader skill instead.

      • immatx
        immatx commented
        Editing a comment
        SithCats Yeah that's kind of my point. Just taking away the leader skill gets him out of those dungeons. Although fyi a lot of people use Sig in nb10, if speed tuned correctly single hits are fine.

        I sort of agree. Pvp should definitely be weighted more heavily than pve, but it's ridiculous to continuously nerf units that are only good in one mode despite having units only slightly worse than them that are good in almost every mode go nerf free. Perna is the best mon in the game, so even if it's not a big nerf he should probably get changed as well if they're going to keep nerfing all these units that only do things in rta. I doubt they will do it, but they should.

        So can Perna, and he can do it through immunity. Her S2 doesn't reset vio proc chance actually. She has average cooldowns are her S2 is 1 turn longer than Perna's. Yeah the speed lead is insane, but without it she wouldn't be used nearly as much.

      • SithCats
        SithCats commented
        Editing a comment
        Yeah, we're not reaching a consensus here. Let's just agree to disagree.

    • #6
      I feel Fran is a bit overloaded but she is squishy so that helps. As other have said, maybe removing the stun or atk break on S1 would suffice.

      Twins need a nerf. Not a single twin, but the mechanic of it. They are way too strong imo.

      I would nerf lushen... not because he is too strong, but because he makes arena boring and lazy. Your defense must be anti-lushen, so everyone defense look the same :/

      The rest is fine to me.

      Comment


      • ShenSammaN'Sei
        ShenSammaN'Sei commented
        Editing a comment
        I don't agree with nerfing, lol but I do kinda agree, the lushen crap in arena is annoying

    • #7
      None of them need a nerf to be honest, well maybe fran but personally she is fine.

      Lately I see Com2us patterns in nerfing is based on rta tier list mostly made by either korean top player (BeatD) or other top player, and most of the time this is pretty accurate. For example: Ragdoll YH Mo Long Hathor Gany nerf is based on tier list (all of them are on SSS tier rta in many list). Except for fran, none of them are in SSS tier like Hathor or Mo Long. Even Seara, Tiana, Lushen, or Perna are not in SSS tier despite what people say about those four (diana can also included here but she is not on your list so yeah). So IMO they won’t nerfing these units.

      IMO the monster that are under their radar of nerfing right now (based on tier list made by Skit) is: Vanessa, Verde, Hathor, Gany, Arta, Fran, Giana, Ragdoll. But in the end probably only 1-3 of them gets a nerf or no nerf at all (based on latest patch that none of these units gets nerf) and the strong candidate for nerf is either Hathor or Artamiel (based on season 9 statistics)
      Last edited by Vizelion; 05-21-2019, 04:14 PM.

      Comment


      • ShenSammaN'Sei
        ShenSammaN'Sei commented
        Editing a comment
        It really likely has more to do with whiney p2w players I figure, and I get why, they pay stupid amounts for a game that probably won't exist in 10 years, and yea com2us needs to cater to the ones that put them in golden f****** palaces, but ruining good mons for the f2p players is wrong beyond compare, cuz we play for the love of the game. It's just not cool com2us.

      • Vizelion
        Vizelion commented
        Editing a comment
        @ShenSammaN’Sei I did not fully agree with what they do as well, but sadly, this happens
        Which is why IMO from the list above no one is deserving nerf, however based on tier list, at least we know which one is on Com2us nerf radar (not like we can prevent the nerf tho)

      • immatx
        immatx commented
        Editing a comment
        ShenSammaN'Sei If a nerf is done well the mon would still be strong. Did Gany, Mo Long, Hathor, or Ragdoll become useless after getting nerfed?

    • #8
      I think Ld nat 5 like giana should have the nerf and the rest is okayish.

      Its just the runes that makes them strong. JUST GIT GUD ON YOUR RUNES.

      Comment


      • #9

        Fran- less stun chance
        Verde-fine
        Aegir-nice, don't change..feels broken because of the new s3 on cooldown=faster and heals mechanic.
        Tiana-cant say
        Perna-such a core unit for everything, feels amazing to have, horrible to not.
        Lushen-strongest nat 4, if you nerf him there will be a new strong nat4 that'll need nerfing...leave as is.
        Twins- lower modifiers(a smidge please not a whole lot) would be good enough.
        Seara-does need some nerfing to s2(same for giana) but don't nerf her too harshly... maybe give her no additional turn if you dont land bomb or something.

        Comment


        • cruxio002
          cruxio002 commented
          Editing a comment
          No additional turn without a bomb? lol, the res:acc is too rng for this ****.

      • #10
        Nerfing is beyond dumb. Mons are mons, some suck and some dont, that's how it goes. Like ANY game. And I think it's wrong beyond that, like yay I got gany hurrah, then u take his strip away and just idk it ruined my day. I didn't use him for months just cuz I was sad. There's ONE, AND ONLY ONE mon I would ever ask u to nerf cuz she's just ridiculous, and that's that stupid water priestess. She IS too much. No mon in the game can make me lose in arena like her. If I can kill all 3 other mons, and not lose a single mon, I should be able to kill her. There isn't any other mon like that. I refuse to draw when it happens cuz I legit won, I'd rather take the defeat out of principle. Cuz even if she's built well enough to kill me (haha) then the other mons would have smashed me. Any other mon I couldn't kill like that WOULD eventually kill me. It's just stupid. Idk maybe even make it to where any fight u may be in would end like that has the same thing as world arena, power up and hp or def down, idc, I'd rather freakin lose than draw with that... mon. <-- censored. Rant about Rina over, ty.

        Comment


        • DreamWalkerMav
          DreamWalkerMav commented
          Editing a comment
          If Rina is giving you trouble, you have to build a mon that can counter her. There are many useful ones.

        • nooooo
          nooooo commented
          Editing a comment
          can't deal with a Rina and think gany post nerf is bad, wtf?

        • SithCats
          SithCats commented
          Editing a comment
          You can handle Camilla but not Rina? That seems very odd to me.

      • #11
        Leave verde out.. he's my DB10 hero

        The rest can be downdraded to 2*

        Comment


        • #12
          Don't mention Diana. Says all

          Comment


          • *NotChow*
            *NotChow* commented
            Editing a comment
            what does it say actually?

        • #13
          It can be summarized in one simple sentence:
          "I LOST! IT'S UNFAIR! NERF EVERYTHING!"

          Comment


          • #14
            Reddit seems to be raising their pitchforks and torches against Tiana and Perna

            I'm not actually scared of Tiana.. I'm actually scared of the debuffers that comes with her (Jeanne, Rica, Poseidon etc.). So how would i counter them? I use Tetra, Josephine or sometimes use Praha lead. I can also see that outspeeding them is the key counter here (Tiana has a low base speed)

            I don't see any issue on Perna.. There are 2 farm-able counters Theo & Tesarion .. lots of counter to this monster Reset CD, Anti-Revive, Oblivion

            Comment


            • *NotChow*
              *NotChow* commented
              Editing a comment
              immatx let me explain yet again even though i know your dumb self wouldnt get it or chooses to ignore it because of ignorance. but out of 43% of tesa win rate, it couldve been that 100% of those wins were due to countering perna. in which case saying it isnt reliable is STUPID. but again you simple post random rates as if you know what youre talking about.

              secondly, perna rates maters due to you wanting to argue that there is no reliable counters to it that is farmable. again see point 1.

              3rdly. you want to nerf perna in pve yet keep using "theres no reliable counter" as if pve could possibly counter any team we bring. thats shear stupidity. at its finest.

              over the years after "debating" with you i cant tell if youre dumb, trolling or actually ignorant. either way the same old song and dance is getting boring especially when you clearly suffering from dunning krugger effect, honestly get out of fighter 3 people you try and "debate" the game. ive taken ftp accounts that has less days than you further than you with 1 or 2 frr so whats your excuse?

              honestly tires of your crap logic of "oh cause hes rare" or "im going to bring rates into this and be 100% cluesless about what the rates means" or "i brought rates into this but you cant" just stop its getting annoying. its like talking to a child about paying bills and he constantly just ask "why dont you just get more money". whoever said ignorance is bliss was stupid. because ignorance is annoying AF when theyre trying to argue.

            • immatx
              immatx commented
              Editing a comment
              *NotChow* Lol ok dude. It's really not worth my time to continue this. You'd clearly rather "win" than admit you're wrong.

            • *NotChow*
              *NotChow* commented
              Editing a comment
              immatx this isnt about "winning" its about common sense... which you clearly lack...

          • #15
            Lol plebbit.

            Comment

            Working...
            X