Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Revert Kirna Overnerf

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Densuo
    started a topic Revert Kirna Overnerf

    Revert Kirna Overnerf

    Pretty simple.

    revert the nerf to the active cost. Her active is necessary to her much like a block is to a Block GK not the mostly weak power ups that many GKs not named Presty have. The other changes to the active are changes that were needed, but the cost increase was too much

    Cut and dry she was over nerfed her. She already had plenty of counterplay with Aiolos, flat damage, and getting blown up instantly if she's crit (hello william crit buff, and newly introduced ardor unique)

    The nerf had to happen, let's not kid (, the combination of .5 spirit and a low cooldown was very unforgiving especially if Aiolos was around.) But she got slapped a bit too hard
    Last edited by Densuo; 04-21-2018, 03:36 AM.

  • vidman
    replied
    Yes sure would be nice to see a bit of a reversion performed i really do like taking 3-5 shots waiting on a longer cooldown and a higher spirit cost when the likes of a certain utility striker has no stops during that time.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dasifeno
    replied
    Kirna should have her active buffed, whether or not its the cooldown is debatable. Heres why

    Kirnas only unique feature is her active, her unique gimmick should be reliable. It is not reliable because of the spirit cost as it is easy to deprive her of that spirit because of having to use it and lose it.

    You can make it less effective by reducing the cooldown, but making it less reliable it should not be so, by which is the spirit cost. We should not buff her kit just to make her work when her unique feature (UF for convenience) is not reliable.

    Kirna is arguably one of the strongest cres gk in the game, but she needs her active, which gives the rest of her cres to be the best cres gk. She is by design a cres gk with a kit that helps stave off raw damage but vulnerable to first strikes. If her active cannot be popped off, she is no better than any other cres gk, weaker in fact due to her lack defense which should most likely set her critical at first shot.

    Kirna is a question of reliability right now, not her effectiveness. She works but she needs her other half to work. If her active was a trump card it would be okay, but its not its her defense against raw damage strikers and 2hko

    In terms of Alexa, her conditions should be reverted and her cooldown should stay the same or go even lower but debatable, because its pretty easy to get 2-3 stacks with her old conditions also maxes out at 3 stacks, just her condition needs to be fixed. You can even set her at 1-2 minute duration and it'll work, unless its a striker who by design gets the ball first in which you get one stack.

    I'm not on board to buff them just because I want to use them, I own neither both of them. But I do own Taehoon whose UF is screwed over by design. After the Micki nerf, I realize how much his UF actually works, just riding the coattail of the Micki. He really needs a rework, but someone named Black Tortoise needs love first. Thats what Taehoon would do ;-;

    Gks with UF needs to work reliably or have big payouts that makes them standout. They should have some exceptions to the rule to allow them to work but not exploit it (technically they are). Their effectiveness can be changed, but unless their UF is like cashlove, rng but big payout, then you can nerf reliability.

    Leave a comment:


  • Astraea41
    replied
    I think the Spirit Cost nerf is reasonable, however the nerf on her 1st passive skill Wing of Aegis is really unnecessary. BB/Com2Us please buff Kirna's 1st passive skill.

    Leave a comment:


  • Axialyris
    replied
    for me kirna isnt the problem of PvP, the problem always came from some players who has good global totems/debuff like Black Daisy, Yeo Jung, Jibril, Serestia, Aslan etc...
    They are the important parts of OHKO cancers, ultra-tanky backlines; but again some are essential units for PvE... so meh...

    Leave a comment:


  • PaxMilitae
    replied
    Kirna with the right backline's still annoying as hell. The problem is that, right now, only CR Kirna (aka the cancerous one) is viable.

    Her active was a big part of the problem and, overall, it's in a good place. I've already seen a lot of Kirnas that handled the extra spirit cost without any difficulty, because, guess what, her team's setup and stones were tailored to handle that extra cost.

    What BB/Com2Us could do would be making her DR stacking a tad easier. In exchange, though, they would have to nerf that CR debuff a bit, otherwise she'd be broken again.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chaosking
    replied
    My opinion, I think Kirna is fine, in fact her debuff is a bit too high and her shield should definitely have a duration or else not stackable. I've said it in some posts before, but players that rely on other player's buff to become strong is not overpowered, so lets compare statistics:

    Presty

    Total - 600 hp, 20% defense, paralyze for 3 mins and -40% crit rate for enemy shooter, 55% decrease ID, 44% increasesd CDR, spirit stone up by 30%, and recover 30% of lost hp for 8 mins up to 2 times.
    Active [Clockwork of Purification III]
    Available in 12 min
    [Shield] Removes the active debuff effects on you when you get attacked and recovers 30% of the lost HP first for 8 min. (Activates 2 times)
    Clockwork Activation
    Increases the effect of Spirit Stones on Presty by 30%, HP by 600, and defense by 20%. (Activates only when placed in Goal Keeper position)
    Clockwork of Binding
    When receiving a shot, paralyzes and decreases the enemy shooter's critical rate by 40% with a100% chance for 3 min.
    Rally of the Guardian Knights II
    Presty receives 5% less damage and has 4% increased critical damage resistance when placed in the Goal Keeper position. (The effect becomes stronger for every ally player that is active) (Max 55%/44%)
    Kirna

    Summary - Max Hp 40%, Defense 35%, 25% Decrease ID, -77% crit rate, - 44% Attack Power, Recovers 25% HP when enemies active pass. Increase additional Max Hp by 40%, Critical Resistance by 30% and creates a shield Equivalent to 70% of Max hp (No duration, Stackable).

    Total - Max Hp/Shield 150%, Critical Resist /w -Crit Rate 107%, Defense 35%, 25% Decrease ID, -44% Attack Power, Recover 25% hp enemy active pass.
    Active [Rapid Cooling III]
    Available in 8 min
    [Power-up] Increases the MAX HP by 40% and critical resistance by 30% for 10 min and creates a defense shield that is equivalent to 70% of the MAX HP.
    Wings of Aegis
    Increases the MAX HP by 40% and Defense by 35% and decreases the incoming damage by 25%.
    Control of Bitter Cold II
    Decreases the critical rate by 7% and Attack Power by 4% of the enemies within the position when positioned in the goalkeeper position. (The effect becomes stronger with each player that is able to move in the enemy team) (Max 77%/44%)
    Frozen Mirror
    Recovers the HP of the allies within the position by 25% first when the enemies within the position use active pass skills. (Activates only when placed in Goalkeeper position)
    How is Presty even op? She needs very strong spirit stones to actually become decent and then she needs ally buffs to become strong. The only thing people really keep nagging on Presty is because she paralyzes the striker for 3 mins, that is nothing.

    Kirna alone has double to triple the Hp Buff, with a shield and a heal that has no duration. Kirna has super sustain, a shield that blocks incoming damage, a heal that heals dealt damage, super high hp, and if you aren't building Kirna as a critical resistance GK, you are doing it wrong. With a crit resist Kirna, you need at least about 330-360% crit rate to guarantee a crit, and if u are going that high of a crit, unless you have a legendary striker, your damage is going to suffer. Not many strikers can even reach 350% crit rate. Like i said, its just my opinion, but a well built kirna is probably the strongest gk right now, combine that with some crit resist, di, hp totems and shes near unkillable.
    Last edited by Chaosking; 05-08-2018, 12:39 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Densuo
    replied
    Originally posted by Shipwrecksos View Post
    I agree with pretty much everything said so far (namely her spirit cost increase, it should be set back at .5 bars. Please BB reconsider that portion at least).

    Granted, it's true that she needed balancing, but what she got wasn't "balanced" by any means. As multiple people have pointed out, Presty is just as overpowered due to totem overbuffs, but somehow Presty herself doesn't get any adjustment, and the Goalie that everyone gripes about the most in a given season ends up eating the bullet for everyone.

    Ironically, the one thing that they actually DIDN'T nerf on her was her insanely powerful crit rate debuff, which arguably was the bigger culprit in what made her so broken in the first place (especially a CR Kirna). Now they've turned her into a roulette-wheel version of Raklet, with slightly better stats. I'm not saying no balance was needed, but they went beyond overkill with her.
    I'm actually on the fence about it now lol

    The active nerf more or less hurt me the most. I do think the CoolDown timer was more or less fair. and DR Kirna needed to go. But the spirit cost will be a boon either way.

    Leave a comment:


  • Shipwrecksos
    replied
    I agree with pretty much everything said so far (namely her spirit cost increase, it should be set back at .5 bars. Please BB reconsider that portion at least).

    Granted, it's true that she needed balancing, but what she got wasn't "balanced" by any means. As multiple people have pointed out, Presty is just as overpowered due to totem overbuffs, but somehow Presty herself doesn't get any adjustment, and the Goalie that everyone gripes about the most in a given season ends up eating the bullet for everyone.

    Ironically, the one thing that they actually DIDN'T nerf on her was her insanely powerful crit rate debuff, which arguably was the bigger culprit in what made her so broken in the first place (especially a CR Kirna). Now they've turned her into a roulette-wheel version of Raklet, with slightly better stats. I'm not saying no balance was needed, but they went beyond overkill with her.

    Leave a comment:


  • Densuo
    replied
    Originally posted by zennyo View Post
    No comment about Kirna as even in her current state she's miserable to face with any light striker that isn't Vonchi ie. idk enough to say, I've never used this player and I use a striker that's not meant to fight her.

    But I wanted to note, on the topic of overnerfed GKs Alexa lost all her synergy with a monolight backline when the stacking condition of her first passive was changed from "passes in the position" to "passes between players currently in the assigned position". Forget the reduced effect duration of the passive, they could've even nerfed the max potential of her stacks, but changing the condition only exacerbated her pre-existing weakness to OHKO and eliminated any strategy that could've been built around her skillset:

    1. There's no longer any use in outspeeding the opposing frontline because passes from their mid- or backline don't proc her stacks.
    2. A reflex mid or even just a mid that walls typically means she loses her low-duration stacks in the time it takes for the ball to reach her backline again... except what other kind of mid is there that works to her advantage.
    3. She doesn't get stronger as the game progresses the way Kei does, and she doesn't specialize in Isillia-esque early game tankiness. Her healing passive only gets weaker late game (as does Isillia's), and she has no active block or thresholds to protect her from OHKO when her stacks are down (which is almost always now).

    Note: Her susceptibility to being taken out when her stacks are down was in fact the counterplay from the start, ie. long-shooter OHKO which is now easily frontline striker OHKO.

    The recent buffs to light action speed/action bar recovery seem to just add insult to injury.

    The reason why people wanted her looked at in the first place was because of her effectiveness in a rainbow backline. However, the resulting nerf made her so unreliable and so easily taken out that people now replace her with Presty to the exact same effect - meaning the problem was never so much the goalkeeper as it is the totems of the backline supporting her.
    I'm not gonna argue kirna vs mono light. Or mono thunder vs mono light. I think that matchup is and always has been the worst matchup in all of soccer spirits. Hiro after his buff should be able to contend, Vonchi for all intents and purposes is a monster and can get the job done, but the issue is mono light vs mono thunder. The only light units that I notice that ever trouble me are aggressively built shamans, Chitose, Beth, a counter attacking milky way, Jibril's crazy passive, and finally, Hiro and Vonchi.

    I do also agree Alexa was nerfed too hard. It's exactly as you say, her weakness of being caught with her pants down has been made way more obvious.

    and yes. The main issue turned out to really still be Rainbow abuse. And Presty's rampant near 100% usage rate is just further proof.

    Leave a comment:


  • zennyo
    replied
    No comment about Kirna as even in her current state she's miserable to face with any light striker that isn't Vonchi ie. idk enough to say, I've never used this player and I use a striker that's not meant to fight her.

    But I wanted to note, on the topic of overnerfed GKs Alexa lost all her synergy with a monolight backline when the stacking condition of her first passive was changed from "passes in the position" to "passes between players currently in the assigned position". Forget the reduced effect duration of the passive, they could've even nerfed the max potential of her stacks, but changing the condition only exacerbated her pre-existing weakness to OHKO and eliminated any strategy that could've been built around her skillset:

    1. There's no longer any use in outspeeding the opposing frontline because passes from their mid- or backline don't proc her stacks.
    2. A reflex mid or even just a mid that walls typically means she loses her low-duration stacks in the time it takes for the ball to reach her backline again... except what other kind of mid is there that works to her advantage.
    3. She doesn't get stronger as the game progresses the way Kei does, and she doesn't specialize in Isillia-esque early game tankiness. Her healing passive only gets weaker late game (as does Isillia's), and she has no active block or thresholds to protect her from OHKO when her stacks are down (which is almost always now).

    Note: Her susceptibility to being taken out when her stacks are down was in fact the counterplay from the start, ie. long-shooter OHKO which is now easily frontline striker OHKO.

    The recent buffs to light action speed/action bar recovery seem to just add insult to injury.

    The reason why people wanted her looked at in the first place was because of her effectiveness in a rainbow backline. However, the resulting nerf made her so unreliable and so easily taken out that people now replace her with Presty to the exact same effect - meaning the problem was never so much the goalkeeper as it is the totems of the backline supporting her.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X