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The Different Types of "Damage Increase"

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  • The Different Types of "Damage Increase"

    Disclaimer: The topics covered are based on my own knowledge as a fellow player. This is not an official statement or reveal in regards to game mechanics, and is based on information already discovered and known by members of the community.

    Today, I want to go over the definitions of “damage increase,” abbreviated in the community as DI. The English translations of skills are not always the most consistent, but I will try my best to clear up the distinction of the three types in the game.

    From a discussion on Discord the other day, the terms of “fake DI” and “true DI” were thrown around, and it’s clear that many do not fully understand the extent of this. I think trying to lump everything under DI is a misnomer, so will be using some more appropriate terms that I hope is a better description.

    Preface: Understanding the types will require some mentions of the damage formula. The formula itself is a lot to explain, and to keep things concise will only be mentioned, not explained in detail.

    Type 1: Unconditional Critical Damage (known as fake DI)

    This first type is often called fake DI because, in terms of application, skills with this effect do not actually affect damage reduction. Instead, in the damage formula it is lumped together with the critical damage stat; the only difference being that you do not need to crit for Type 1 to apply.

    Key Phrases:
    • “Increases the damage dealt to goalkeeper”
    • “Increases damage dealt to (attribute)”
    • Noa's P3, Avatar Descend at Level 5: "Increases the damage dealt to 40%"
    • Damien's P1, Light Eraser II at Level 5: "Increase...the inflicted damage to Light players by 25%..."
    • Windcaller at +15: "Increases the damage dealt to goal keepers by 25%"
    Let’s see this type in action:
    1. In Story 1-1 we’ve got a benchwarmer goalkeeper who has no leveled passives nor stones.
    2. In the first scenario, we take in a Noa also with no passives nor stones.
    3. I’m not going to go into the damage formula, but basically, we see Noa do 253 with a non-crit.

      Since her cdmg is 50%, with a crit she does 253*1.50 = 379.5 or 380 in the screenshot as it’s rounded out.
    4. Now we put points into her 3rd passive, granting her 40% unconditional critical damage.
    5. Without a crit, she will do 253*1.4 = 354.2. In the screenshot, it’s 356 damage, revealing that her Dribble is actually somewhere between 253.5 and below 254, but this is not shown in the game despite being relevant in calculations
    6. With a crit, the Type 1 DI and CDMG is added together, giving her an effective 90% cdmg, meaning she should do 480.7. (In the screenshot it’s 482 for the same reasons above)

    Question: Can you explain Sharr's skills?

    Her third passive has two conditions, but they are both actually Type 1. The only difference is whether or not she is attacking a Dark goalkeeper for that 25% part to be included. Her second skill is actually a different type of DI, which is the next one--

    Type 2: Negative Damage Reduction (known as the usual DI)

    This type is the common one people should think of when blankly referring to DI. This is because it works exactly as the typical understanding of what DI is. Type 2 is essentially negative damage reduction.

    Key Phrases:
    • “Increases damage inflicted on the target”
    • “Increase the damage ... receive by”
    • Sharr's P2, Pulverize II at Level 5: "Increases the inflicted damage on the target by 20%..."
    • Cypher's P3, Chaos Transcendent at Level 5: "Increases the damage that enemies within the position receive by 20%..."
    • Red CDMG (Scorching Inferno) at +15: "Increases the damage inflicted on the target by 14%"
    • Frozen Spear at +15: "Increases the damage that enemies on the vertical line receive by 10%"
    Question: Does that mean 10% DI = -10% DR?

    In a way yes, but also no. If only it were that easy! Yes, as the game will view DR and DI as the same value (one is positive, the other negative), but no, as we must understand that DR (and Type 2 DI as it is essentially negative DR) is multiplicative, so you can't just add the two together.

    I will show how it works in game:
    1. The 11-6 Mission Mode Wizol has a skill that grants him a flat 20% damage reduction.
    2. I now add in Vivid Fear, who has a flat 15% damage increase (which is Type 2).
    3. As you can see when VF’s DI is applied, the final result is not a straightforward 5%. Instead, Wizol’s DR becomes 8%
    4. Here’s the math behind it: .80 * 1.15 = .92
    As you can see, things are viewed in terms of effective damage taken. 20% DR translates to 80% damage taken, while 15% DI translates to 115% damage taken. Since it is multiplicative, you multiply the two together to get 92% damage taken, or 8% DR as shown in the game.

    Type 3: Final Damage Multiplier (known as true DI)

    This final type is easy, as you just take the value of Type 3 and multiply it to the prior output damage. As such, this makes it the best of the three types to have as you get the most damage gains from it. All skills that are of this type will always apply to the ally, not the enemy.

    Key Phrases
    • “Increases damage that allies within the position inflict"
    • "Increases damage done”
    • “Deals additional damage”
    • Hiro's P3, Definite Hit II at Level 5: " 15% additional damage with a shot"
    • Jibril's P2, Aura of Punishment at Level 5: "Increases the damage that allies within the position inflict by 15%"
    • Chrono's Active, New Test Subject III at Level 5: "Increases...damage done by 20% of the designated target..."
    To best illustrate this, let’s use Hiro.
    1. Without his passives or stones, we see him doing 730 on crit

    2. With his last passive now leveled, he does 730*1.15 = 839.5 or 840 in the screenshot
    Question: How do the three types of DI compare to each other?

    If you’ve been following along, then you’ll realize that I’ve listed the types in order of effectiveness.

    Type 1, not even being actual DI, is included earlier in the damage formula. This means it is subject to all the things that follow after, being the least effective type.

    Type 2 is in the middle of the road, as is subject to various calculations. It is more effective the lower the DR the opponent has, and drops off when we reach decent (66.7%ish) amounts of DR. This is contrasted by the PEN stat which becomes more effective the higher DR the opponent has. While in PvE this isn’t so much of an issue, we see why capping out on PEN is so valued in PvP as GK nowadays can easily reach such values and then some. This is a quick summary of a topic I may go over in detail another time (though existing text is already available if you search).

    Finally, we have Type 3 which is the best type and also the easiest to factor in. Likewise, we have very few sources of this skill and it’s only seen on a handful of players and no stones thus far.

    Question: How does this explain Jaeger’s recall?

    So, on Oct. 17th, 2019, we had a recall of Jaeger with the reasoning, I suspect, not many understood.

    The skill effect itself was correct, but the wording was not, even in the original Korean. This type of misunderstanding prompted a recall as some users might have been misled into thinking it was Type 3.

    Before: Protection of Fairy II: Increases the pass effect of Whirlwind players currently in the assigned position by 30% and the damage they inflict on goalkeeper by 20%.
    After: Protection of Fairy II: Increases the pass effect of Whirlwind players currently in the assigned position by 30% and they inflict 20% additional damage to the goalkeeper.
    The change is very subtle in English and can be easily missed. It's not a perfect translation, but just know that the focus shifts from all damage getting a 20% increase (Type 3), to dealing 20% additional damage that is then subject to DR calculations (Type 1 as it's specifically to the goalkeeper).


    Hopefully this explains the various DI-related skill effects a bit more. To be honest, you can play Soccer Spirits entirely without having to know any of this. But to those with a curious mind, this is just one of many intricacies of the game, and I hope more people are willing to take the dive into this side of Soccer Spirits.

    Last edited by Com2uS_Nyan; 11-18-2019, 04:30 PM.